Waldron Career Conversation with Diana Richter '09 and Peter Moore '09: Graduating into a Recession
We spoke with Diana Richter ‘09 and Peter Moore ’09 who both graduated from Northwestern during the last recession with very different paths before and after graduation. Diana majored in Art History and pursued a career in entertainment and brand marketing. Peter majored in Economics and Spanish and after starting his career in investment banking, he quickly pivoted to working in startups. We talk about what it was like graduating into a recession, how to make tough career decisions in uncertain times, and advice for current students along with recent grads. Learn more at Weinberg.northwestern.edu and search for Waldron or email us at waldron@northwestern.edu.
Cassie Petoskey (00:00):
Welcome to the Weinberg and the World Podcast, where we bring you stories of interdisciplinary thinking for today's complex world. This episode is an alumni career chat brought to you by the Walden Student Alumni Connections Program. Today, we're speaking with Diana and Peter who both graduated from Northwestern in 2009 with very different paths before and after graduation. Diana majored in art history and pursued a career in entertainment and brand marketing. Peter majored in economics and Spanish, and after starting his career in investment banking, he quickly pivoted to working in startups. We wanted to bring them together to have a conversation around graduating into a recession. They both shared insights into how they approached the job search after college, along with advice for current Northwestern students and soon to be recent grads. We hope that this conversation can provide some real world examples of how to approach making tough career decisions during an uncertain time.
Cassie Petoskey (00:50):
Right. Thanks so much for being here with us today, Peter and Diana.
Peter Moore (00:53):
Thanks for having us. Go Cats.
Diana Richter (00:55):
Likewise. Nice to be here.
Cassie Petoskey (00:57):
Great, and we're so excited to hear more about what you guys are doing today and talk through a little bit more about graduating through the last recession. But before we do that, we want to jump to your Northwestern experience, and if you can tell us a little bit more about how your experience was on campus and how you ended up picking your major. And maybe we can start with Peter.
Peter Moore (01:19):
Sure thing. Yeah. I came to Northwestern initially as a math major. Didn't really know what I wanted to do, picked it because I did decently on the SAT in math and in math classes in high school, really. But I think once I got to Northwestern, I started to realize how much I didn't know. I think leading up to college, goals had always been provided, whether athletic or academic. And once I got to Northwestern, sure, there's still clear academic goals depending on your concentration of choice, but you have so much more agency in the path that you choose, and that was a little frightening. And so I think that initially, my experience in Northwestern was recognizing all these different perspectives, all these different really approaches to life. And I don't think in college, I really picked my path with total confidence, but I started to understand how to work through all these options and work with people who were really different than me. I ended up being an economics major and Spanish Minor. And yeah, I graduated in 2009.
Cassie Petoskey (02:44):
Awesome. Thanks, Peter. And Diana, what about you?
Diana Richter (02:46):
This is a good balance. I was terrible at high school math and continue to be terrible at math. You should see my SAT score and my GMAT score, but I went to Northwestern very much knowing that I wanted to focus on liberal arts. I've always loved all things related to history and fiction and English literature and art. And so I ended up focusing... Pretty early on, I knew that my major was going to be art history because it felt like the perfect blend of the creative with the historical that I loved so much. I also majored in art theory and practice, mainly to get into all of the art classes that I remember would always book up so quickly. But I took as many different courses as I could within Weinberg, a lot of film courses, a lot of history courses, but no econ or math classes. And that really set me up for what I wanted to do, which I knew would be in the arts one day.
Cassie Petoskey (03:58):
Yeah, absolutely. You guys come from very different majors and also really interesting and different industries right now. How did your major end up impacting your career path, Diana, maybe we'll start with you.
Diana Richter (04:12):
Yeah. So, I like to say that when I was at Northwestern, while I majored in art history, I spent an equal amount of time outside of academics focusing on extracurriculars. So, I was the chair of Mayfest, which is the organization that puts on Villa Day. I chaired a bunch of committees that are part of A&O, the programming board. I had a radio show. I was a photographer for the Daily Northwestern. And so I was just trying to immerse myself with as many cultural opportunities as possible. And I always kind of knew that what I was doing academically was just trying to make me kind of a more well-rounded candidate in the future, such that I could go into a job interview and I still feel this way and I can connect with that person that I'm speaking to about hopefully something that they might be interested in.
(05:12):
And I kind of dabbled with the idea of working in the arts. And it was nice to know that when I did graduate, I felt like I had a lot of different career choices because I had cast so wide a net, whether it be working for a gallery or finding a job at a museum, which I certainly looked at and spoke to a lot of people, or following an entertainment path, which is what I ended up doing at the time due to my experience with Mayfest and A&O the relationships I built there. Should I say what I do now, or wasn't the question? Okay.
Cassie Petoskey (05:52):
We'll get to that one next. Yeah. No, that's great. Thank you. That was perfect. And Peter, what about you?
Peter Moore (05:58):
Yeah, I think... I mentioned that I didn't really know what I wanted to do initially. I sampled a few different types of classes in kind of a different breadth than Diana, like she mentioned, but dabbling in engineering, dabbling in some different math courses, eventually setting on economics and Spanish. I think that the economics classes helped me to set up experiments and understand how to learn with a purpose. And I think that's been incredibly useful for me throughout everything I've done after Northwestern. Also, the Spanish portion of my study has been huge for me as well. I think not just in learning a different way to communicate, learning about the different cultures, to communicate in these different ways throughout the Latin and Spanish speaking world and beyond, but also open up some new career opportunities for me down the road, working in Mexico and working in South America with a variety of different companies that operate there.
(07:13):
And so I didn't expect that to happen. I just kind of enjoyed the coursework and reading Cervantes and things like this. But yeah, putting these different skills together in interesting combinations, you get a nice little interesting overlap in the Venn diagram that can be a really interesting place to play once you get out in the world.
Cassie Petoskey (07:33):
Absolutely. That's great. And it's so great that you both dabbled in a lot of different things. I think that's just a great example for current students to try some different coursework, whether that be in the area of focus with your major or beyond. I think that's great. And Peter, can you tell us more about what you're doing today in 60 seconds or less?
Peter Moore (07:57):
Yeah, sure thing. So, today, I work for a company called One Concern. We're a data science company that models natural hazard and disaster events, like hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, fires and pandemics, so timely, unfortunately, so that cities, states, countries, companies can plan better for these types of events and respond better when they happen. And what my role at the company is director of operations, and so focusing on how we invest in different ways to go to market, how we sell and how we support our customers and manage risk to the business.
Cassie Petoskey (08:42):
And Diana, what about you?
Diana Richter (08:42):
I am a brand marketing consultant freelancing with a few different companies in a variety of different sectors like transportation and healthcare. But until then, I was leading brand marketing teams for various eCommerce startups.
Cassie Petoskey (08:59):
Diana, coming back to you, how do you see your arts and science background... I know you mentioned liberal arts was something you were passionate about coming into college. How do you see that background playing out in your work today?
Diana Richter (09:09):
Well, it's interesting. I regret... Even though I didn't take any econ courses, I regret not taking them because I did end up going to business school and I got my MBA and certainly struggled in all of the mathematics courses and opening an Excel spreadsheet. So, I do think that it's really important, to your point, Kathryn, that you said earlier to kind of try to diversify your education as much as possible because you never realize what you're going to end up doing and how it might help you down the line. And I certainly know now, as a brand marketer, a lot of what I do is really creative. And while there's a lot of marketing strategy and big picture thinking in what I'm doing, the beauty of working with fashion brands, which is where a lot of my experiences is, is that you were so a meshed in the arts, so I got to lean into my passion.
(10:13):
And the fact that I spent so much time going to concerts or taking film classes or learning about Russian lit, I feel like every single day, that plays into what you do as a marketer because I'm constantly trying to make the brands I work with feel culturally relevant. So, to have an understanding of what was or what at one point or is currently part of the cultural conversation is important, though I am also equally enmeshed in Excel spreadsheets, which I never thought would happen, but it has.
Cassie Petoskey (10:56):
Yeah, that's great, two really specific examples. I love that. And Peter, how do you see... You're in a different industry. How do you see the arts and science background playing out in your work?
Peter Moore (11:07):
I think the intersection of arts and science is really interesting. That sounds kind of cliche to say, but I work with a lot of incredibly talented technical folks, software engineers, data scientists, but also customers who have no idea how any of this crap works and creatives that need to design and experience, and folks need to sell it who are very dollar oriented. And so part of my job is to get all these folks to play nice and resolve these misaligned motivations and different ideas of success. And so I think having a structured kind of math background, as well as healthy exposure to the arts through that Weinberg academic upbringing has been huge. And I mentioned managing different perspectives on a diverse team is really hard to do, and the exposure that you get to that at a place like Northwestern, place like Weinberg is incredibly valuable once you get out in the real world.
Cassie Petoskey (12:14):
Yeah, that's great, more examples of how the arts and science background plays out in different industries, and I love the examples that you both have shared. And now I'd love to dive into our hot topic for today around graduating in a recession. So, you both graduated in 2009 in the middle of the last recession, and people compare now to that last recession, so we wanted to bring you both in and kind of share your perspective of what your senior year was like, what the job market was like. And I kind of want to just leave it open-ended, and Peter, we'll start with you, and just hear a little bit more about what it was like for you graduating into the last recession.
Peter Moore (12:56):
So, I kind of got hit with the whammy in the last recession. At the end of my undergraduate career, I had this vision of going and being a big powerful investment banker on Wall Street, and that turned out to be a really bad time to pursue a job on Wall Street. I had a job at a bank called Lehman Brothers lined up, and got a call about a month before they ceased to exist from the guy that told me he had a job for me saying I should probably figure out something else to do. And so I was left kind of grasping at straws career wise, didn't know what to do. But something that was huge for me was actually leveraging the Northwestern network. I'm from California. I'm from the Bay Area. And so I said, okay, well, I'm not moving to New York. I'm going to go home and figure this out.
(13:57):
And I started looking up Northwestern alumni that worked at companies that I'd seen in the news and that I thought would be resilient in the face of chaos. And I found a fellow named Chris Babel, he was a Weinberg alumni as well. Shot him a resume, shot him a note telling him that I thought what he was doing was cool and that I wanted to work for him, and he ended up answering an email. And I worked at entry level at a software company on a product team. I was a finance guy. I was pretty much just keeping the books, but got experience working on a technology product team and seeing what that was like from an investment banking background, it's very transactional. Working with a group of people that are really trying to build something to solve a fundamental problem was really new for me and I learned an incredible amount from that. And I think through that experience, I learned a few things.
(15:01):
One is kind of define what success means for you and be ready to adjust that definition as you learn. And once you do have that definition out there, put together a plan for yourself to go get it. And I think that having an optimistic goal, and then a plan informed by realism, an execution plan informed by realism is important to help you get there and actually achieve some things that maybe you didn't think you could do. But I think, again, just kind of relying on people that were in my network to help me, showing them that they could trust me through effort, and then continuing to work towards the definition of success that I have for myself kind of helped me get through that period.
Cassie Petoskey (16:02):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that advice resonates today where there are a number of folks in the Northwestern network out there who are still connecting and who are still willing to network and potentially even be hiring in various fields. They just might not be the one you thought you were going to go down. So, I love that, Peter. And Diana, how about you? Different industry, but curious how your experience went.
Diana Richter (16:34):
I'm glad that we have such a different experience, different coasts, different sides of campus. This is so interesting. So, when I graduated, again, I cast a really wide net. I was interviewing at museums, I was interviewing at talent agencies, I was interviewing with live concert promoters. I was really focused on in the arts and culture, but I didn't know... And Kathryn, we had our conversation before this, I didn't know what McKinsey was. I didn't know what BCG was. I didn't know that there was this formal recruiting process that even existed because I had been so removed from it. And so the crisis and the recession felt a little bit removed from me because it felt like it really impacted the financial sector and obviously the mortgage crisis, and there was a lot more of layers and enormous depth to what had happened. But at the time, I was kind of disconnected. And my mother worked in banking and so I felt like I had a lot more pressure coming from my family because they understood the breadth of what was happening.
(17:47):
And to me, entertainment was still going, the arts were still going, all of that was still moving. And so when I graduated Northwestern, I knew I wasn't going to go through the traditional recruiting process and that I would most likely graduate without a job, and that's indeed what happened. And to Peter's point, I knew that my strategy all along needed to be network, network, network. It wasn't going to be that I'd find a job that was listed on a career page. I'm not even sure if LinkedIn really existed when we graduated. I can't remember, to be honest. I remember looking at Craigslist a lot, which seems wild and dates us quite a bit.
(18:30):
Do, suffice it to say that when I did finally get a job offer, it was not until July. So, it wasn't too far after, but it was a hundred percent due to my Northwestern and Weinberg network as well. It was at William Morris Endeavor, which at the time was the biggest talent agency in the world. They're now called Endeavor. I got the offer right before they went through a merger. And three weeks later, two weeks later, they went through a merger and my job was taken off the table. So, it was interesting because it really had nothing to do with... I'm sure it had a little bit to do with the recession, but it didn't feel as directly correlated. And I had to then go back to the drawing board and keep looking after thinking that I had gotten my dream job. And fortunately, a few weeks after that they started hiring again. And so I was one of the first people back. And started in the mail room where many, many Northwestern alums before me had started.
(19:40):
And the only reason I got that job and got the interview was because there were 10 or more alums who had all had a show on WNUR or worked at A&O or worked on Mayfest and were now working at William Morris where several of them still work. So, I was lucky to get that job, but again, it was all due to networking. And when I think back on how many failed network effects or failed networking moments I had, I keep kicking myself because there are probably so many more moments like that where I wasn't as aggressive in looking at the alumni list and reaching out to people as I should have been. I think I was nervous and scared about a known internal conflict, but clearly it made a huge difference for both of us and we'll continue to do so, I hope.
Cassie Petoskey (20:42):
Yeah, absolutely, such a great and bass network to take advantage of. And I'd love to dive into how you guys strategized your career paths from that first job, right? So, we hear the story, Peter, this was your obviously not your plan. You had thought you were going to go into a very different industry. Strategizing from there must have been a big culture shift. And Diana, for you, you landed a job you enjoyed, but there were bumps along the way and you're obviously doing something different now. So, kind of curious how you strategize from that point, especially knowing that we might have Weinberg college students right now who are going to be going into maybe their plan B or not the exact perfect dream job for that first job out of school. So, Diana, how did you think through your career from that point?
Diana Richter (21:41):
Yeah, so actually I had written, before we got on this call, some notes, and one of the key notes that I had thought of, and I'd actually, I've heard some people I really respect talking about it now on other podcasts, is optimizing for a variety of experiences and really trying to get as much under your belt at an early age as possible, not only to be able to speak to what you like and what you don't like, but also what you're good at and what you're not good at, and making yourself a better candidate in the future. So, when I took the job at William Morris, I don't think I had acknowledged it to myself, but now that I look back, that really was what my focus was. I knew that I wanted to work in entertainment at the time, and I knew that William Morris was the top place to work in entertainment.
(22:38):
It was the equivalent of being an investment banking analyst. So, it was kind of that seal of approval that would go on your resume and open a million different doors. And I was there for three and a half years and it became clear that what we were doing at William Morris, while it was within the traditional lens of entertainment, you actually learn about a whole bunch of different skill sets, like managing talent is managing people who have different experiences and different motivations, like Peter was talking about earlier, all the time, negotiating contracts. I felt like I went to a mini law school. That has served me so well. I'm never intimidated by a legal document. And then I discovered marketing, because as an agent, you are trying to position your client, your talent. So, in my case, I was working mainly with a lifestyle talent, so anyone you see on the Food network or morning TV, trying to build a brand for them.
(23:41):
So, sure, we'd negotiate the talent deal, but we'd also picked their cookbook or their product line with Walmart or Target or whoever their partner might be. And so I was really building this kind of arsenal of different projects, different talent, different customers I was speaking to. And that's why eventually I decided to go to get my MBA, because what I couldn't speak to was the financial side of things or the more structured, I don't want to say mathematical, but business side of things that I didn't really have any experience in. But I really made the most of those first few years in terms of, again, trying to develop as large a Rolodex of information and experience as possible. And I continue in interviews now and conversations now to speak to that experience all the time, even though it was over seven or eight years ago now.
Cassie Petoskey (24:48):
Yeah, so valuable to get those skills and that experience, and also understanding what else you might need for your next step, I think that's great. It was perfect for you at the time, but then you're like, "Oh, I might want to pursue the MBA to go down another road in the future." I think that's awesome and a valuable lesson. And Peter, different experience for you. I'm curious how... This was a really big shift. How did you strategize a career starting from a very different place than you thought you would?
Peter Moore (25:23):
Yeah, so my sense of purpose, like I mentioned, was kind of shot right. at the point of graduating. I still didn't really know what I wanted to do and I felt like it was going to take me a while to figure out what my purpose is, even though I tried for a couple quick hits to match up what I was doing with that and didn't really work initially. And so in lieu of having that goal for myself, I knew I wanted to learn from people who had figured out, who had done great things from my assessment of greatness and learn how they pursue excellence and kind of beyond their team. Some of these folks were people that had built the ad product in business at Google or who had built the sales organizations at salesforce.com or Square, and so successful companies that I admired and folks that I knew I could learn a lot from.
(26:22):
And they were receptive to me learning from them, trying hard, making some mistakes. But anyways, that mentorship from some of these talented accomplished folks was really important for me. And so learning was really my goal during this period, starting my career career at a company called Verisign, working for that fellow mentioned earlier, the Northwestern alumni. That business got acquired by Symantec, a huge IT security company that itself has been acquired now, but it's like Norton Internet Security is one of their familiar consumer brands. And then a few different startups in San Francisco, working on a few different products and security and analytics and big data and AI products. And so I've effectively saw this series of learning opportunities as my on the job MBA in effect, learned a lot of really valuable ways to do business, grew that network beyond the Northwestern crowd, although I have encountered a lot of Northwestern alumni down my path, which is pretty cool.
(27:31):
Seeing Northwestern t-shirts on the street in San Francisco and saying "Go Cats" is always fun. But that helped me figure out what I wanted to do well and what I would really define as my purpose. And I knew, after all this that, I wanted to obviously do well and do good, and so something with some social utility that obviously makes economic sense or financial sense for me. And that's a big part of how I landed in my previous job where I really felt a sense of that purpose. That was training software engineers in Mexico, building teams of these engineers and getting them signed on projects for big companies that didn't have specific talent. And then a lot of these engineers going on getting jobs at Facebook, Google, and other big companies. And then where I am now.
Cassie Petoskey (28:32):
Yeah, this is great. Definitely love how you bring up, this is a time that students going into the workforce can really learn from the experience and from those around them. I think that's a really helpful mindset to approach going into graduating during these uncertain times. And I'm curious... Oh yeah, go ahead, Peter.
Peter Moore (28:53):
Yeah, I will also say one thing that has been really important for me is how meaningful it has been for me to win the trust of some of these talented people. And that's hard to do. You don't just show up in have it. For me, that's been one through effort and showing them that I'm committing to something that is on their goal set or their priority list, that I understand what they're asking me to do and that I'm going to go as hard as I can to get it done and delivering. And that's really how I built my resume with these people and kind of solidify that network. And so for me, it's been one through effort and a focus on integrity and how we interact with those folks and other people.
Diana Richter (29:46):
I like that a lot because I think that even now, and I know we're going to get to this, but even now when some of us and myself included are trying to think about what the next step is, we always have to remind ourselves to have a mindset that nothing, no job is too small or that you're always trying to do the best work you can. And I remember my first months in the mail room at William Morris where it's a bunch of Ivy League or top college grads who all think they're smart and all have connected pasts and you're pushing a mail cart around, and part of the job was taking an agent's car to the repair shop or feeding their cat.
(30:33):
And some kids would say, "We're too good for this," or have a certain level of entitlement. And those of us who didn't have that entitlement and were there to just work hard and prove our worth, no matter what the ask, were much more successful. And as I've progressed in my career, I don't think that ever changes, ever, especially in the startup space. And no matter what kind of startup you're in, I think that is such an important attitude, and I've seen it now in my hiring practices as well. People with without a willingness to work hard and do right by the team don't last.
Peter Moore (31:20):
Yeah, I'm loving this. I think it's also important where that effort is focused. And I think it's very easy to say yes to everything and try to do everything on the list. And when you take on a little bit too much or a lot too much, then you're not doing an awesome job at everything on the list, kind of perform at a mediocre level, and people don't like that so much. What's I think is important is to pick the subset of the broader list that you're just going to really commit to and do well. It doesn't mean you're picking your career. It means you're picking what you're going to do that day or week or month and knock it out. And if you can do that consistently, then you can get known for being the person that does that really well.
(32:10):
In the future, people will come to you because you're the person that does that thing really well. You're dependable. You can be counted on. And I think an example, I mentioned the Google guy, he was the product manager for AdSense, which is a Google ad server product. And he was not a great engineer, he was not a great technician, but at any time, 24 hours a day, he was known for giving an answer to people immediately, to unblock other people from doing their thing. I'm not saying you do this, but he would... Back when people had big stereos, he would connect his computer to the stereo when someone sent a message through the Google chat back then so it would wake him up in the middle of the night and he would answer immediately. And so again, I'm not saying disrupt your sleep patterns, but those types of things get people's attention and they remember when you do things really, really well.
Cassie Petoskey (33:05):
Absolutely. And I think this is so great. These insights are so great for our graduating seniors or students who are going to be graduating into uncertain times down the road on whatever it is your first rule is. Do it well. You're going to prove yourself to your network at that point. Pick your things you're good at. No job is too small. I love this. This is great advice. And I'd love to close out our episode with just hearing from you guys on what advice would you like to share with students who are going to be graduating into this uncertain time, whether it be this year or in the next few years?
Peter Moore (33:42):
Now is a kind of chaotic time, not kind of, it's an extremely chaotic time. And I think that it's tough when you have plans that get upend by things out of your control. And my advice would be to look for opportunity. I think one thing's changed so radically, dynamics change. It means that the system is out of equilibrium. And eventually, whatever the new normal ends up being, things will stabilize on a new equilibrium. And so where do you want to be? Where do you see that settling up? And how can you adjust your plan? How can you adjust your definition of success to be there when things settle out? And I think obviously the advice earlier of effort in everything apply, but take the center to learn, to get out there, pick up some job maybe that you don't have exposure to, see if it's something that might interest you or give you some sense of satisfaction and look for that opportunity space because there's a lot of new opportunities out there.
Diana Richter (34:52):
Yeah, I totally agree. I actually was on a call earlier today with a friend of mine who is thinking about leaving her company in this time, which is wild. And I was talking to her and I was just thinking, gosh, how exciting is it to think about what the future has in store for us? Because we are so lucky to be smart and hardworking, and to really, in the grand scheme of things, be great candidates. And I have no doubt that anyone who graduated from Northwestern is a great candidate. I wish I had had an opportunity to hire more Northwestern alums, so please, should I be in position to do that, I would love to do that. So, I definitely think that idea, being open about what might come... Personally, I've had consulting opportunities now dry up obviously and projects I was working on are no longer happening.
(35:53):
And as a result, that's had to change what I'm going to do. And I've tried to shift my mindset to be a lot more open to talk to people and look at companies that are in sectors and spaces that I never would've thought about before because life is long and you never know what's where you might be valuable. And I think something that you learn as you continue to work in different projects and with different people is that you do add value for a variety of reasons and kind of harnessing what those reasons are and channeling that as you go out and pitch yourself is important to recognize. The other thing I'd say that's just practical advice, which I am trying to task myself with as well, I know personally, I really... When I was interviewing fresh out of college, I would work a room. I knew how to interview and I always felt like, okay, well, if I can get an interview, I'll be great. I will get the job offer.
(37:07):
And to be honest, since then I've been really lucky that when I get an in-person interview, for the most part, I get an offer, but that's all different now. And so for any of those Weinberg grads who are all about person to person conversations, I think we all have to task ourselves with being a lot more comfortable with phone conversations, with video conversations, follow ups over email, and working on your tone and language and knowing when to be persistent and when to back off. I don't have answers for any of that, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who do. I know there are some great resources. I love... And Kathryn, we've spoken about this, but I love [inaudible 00:37:54] as a media site, but for members, paying members, they've had a lot of webinars and workshops on looking for careers right now and how to network. And I think those things can feel cheesy, but are actually really valuable. So, I think that's some practical advice.
Cassie Petoskey (38:15):
Yeah, absolutely. You both shared some of those big picture ideas, and also some tangible things that are in these students control of working hard and getting more comfortable with these virtual skills, which I think is really helpful and great, and it's been so awesome talking with you both today about this topic. Yeah. Peter, do you have anything else you want to add?
Peter Moore (38:37):
Yeah, Diana mentioned the power of networking. For me, that's really painful for me. It's hard to do. I feel awkward. I don't really know what to say. I feel like I'm being a used car salesman type of thing. But I'd say in doing that, if you feel that way about it, think of who your audience is, think of who you're in the room talking to or who you're sending the message to, over email or LinkedIn or whatever it is. People really like talking about things they care about. If someone works at a bank, talking about the market or their strategy is really interesting to them. If someone works in entertainment, talking about their project or who they represent is really interesting to them. And so I think if you approach people on their terms, align your interest with theirs, then it's just a conversation about something cool and interesting. You're not selling yourself, even though you kind of are.
Cassie Petoskey (39:38):
That's such great advice with networking because it can be so uncomfortable and it sounds so strategic and really how you break it down to having a conversation about something you're both interested in or something that's really interesting is great, and I think that makes it a little bit more approachable to get out there and make those connections, which is awesome. And you guys have shared a ton of great tips. This has been so great chatting with you both. And I just want to thank you again for being here with us today. Thank
Diana Richter (40:09):
Thank you. So fun.
Peter Moore (40:11):
Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you for having us.
Cassie Petoskey (40:14):
For more information about Weinberg College and this podcast, please visit weinberg.northwestern.edu and search for Waldron. Also, we'd love to hear your feedback. Please email us at waldronnorthwestern.edu with your thoughts on today's program. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of Weinberg in the World.