Waldron Career Conversation with David Leander '10: Resident Physician at Barnes-Jewish Hospital at Washington University
David Leander graduated from Weinberg College in 2010 with a triple major in materials science, economics, and Spanish with a global health minor. He didn’t feel prepared to go to medical school right after Northwestern but after working in the public health industry for a few years he decided to go back to pursue an MD/MBA. He is now a resident physician at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. We talk about why he wanted to major in three seemingly different fields, how his time after graduation in the public health industry led him to pursue an MD/MBA, and his advice for students interested in medical school, even if through nontraditional means. Learn more at Weinberg.northwestern.edu and search for Waldron or email us at waldron@northwestern.edu.
Cassie Petoskey (00:00):
Welcome to the Weinberg and the World Podcast, where we bring you stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. This episode is an alumni career chat brought to you by the Walden Student Alumni Connections Program. Today we're speaking with David Leander, who graduated from Weinberg College in 2010 with a triple major in material science, economics and [inaudible 00:00:21] global health minor.
(00:22):
He didn't feel prepared to go to medical school right after Northwestern, but after working in the public health industry for a few years, he decided to go back to pursue an MBA. He is now a resident physician at Barnes Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. David, thanks so much for being here with us today.
David Leander (00:37):
Hi, Cassie. Yes, thank you. I'm excited to share my thoughts and excited to be
Cassie Petoskey (00:42):
Here. We're excited to hear more about what you're up to today. But before we get to that, I'd love to start with your experience on campus at Northwestern, and if you can share a little bit more about what your life at Northwestern was like and what were some of the impactful classes, professors or internships or experiences you had.
David Leander (01:02):
Sure. So I have some really fond memories of being back in Evanston. I think about my time in class, sort of bouncing around all over campus between different classes. As a triple major, I would run literally from tech to Kresge multiple times throughout a day sometimes.
(01:23):
I really enjoyed filling my schedule to the max and taking advantage of all the different opportunities that there were between the different classes. But also, I was a cheerleader. I also played in the concert band. So I think overall I just looked back at this really amazing balance that I tried to strike and sometimes it was a little bit ... maybe not quite such a balance, but I saw college as this opportunity to do things that I thought I might never have the chance to do again. And I looked really fondly on that.
(01:56):
In terms of classes, I feel like there are a lot there. Thinking about my time in class, and I actually took a look at my transcript and sort of jogged my memory about some of the classes I took, and there are a lot of them that came to mind. But I'd have to say my experience in global health in Mexico City over my sophomore year of summer was just really a wonderful immersive experience that I think was, one, really critical to helping build my fluency in Spanish and ultimately majoring in it, but also, the types of classes we took in public health and that experience we had with public health researchers in Mexico I think was a really foundational experience for me to develop my interest in both healthcare, but also doing research.
(02:48):
In terms of specific classes, I remember this bio-materials class I took with Dr. [inaudible 00:02:55] Shaw, which was just a really challenging class. The final project was to sort of pitch an idea of how we would develop artificial kidneys. So this was 10 years ago, and so that was really cutting edge research back then. And I think classes like this that really challenged you and prepared you to take on projects like that and then how to think creatively and present that in a way that was convincing, I think was a good experience just moving forward in general.
(03:27):
In terms of other professors who I connected with, I had a really great opportunity my junior year summer to do some research, some nano-technology research, through a summer research experience for undergraduates with Professor Shad Thaxton, who's actually down at the medical school. And so this summer, I was able to work on synthetic nano-particles for cancer therapeutics and it sounds kind of crazy that I even did that. But yeah, I ended up through his mentorship and through the experience I had that summer, the work that I did was able to be published later on that year.
(04:11):
And then even after I graduated, the work that we did was submitted for several patent applications, so I've been getting these notifications from the innovation office every couple of years or so where they say like, "Oh, this patent was approved in the US or Japan," and just thinking about how the work that I was able to participate in led to that is just really, really amazing to think about.
Cassie Petoskey (04:38):
So great that you had a mix of courses and experiences and these extracurriculars that built out your time at Northwestern. And I'm curious. You mentioned Spanish, but how did you end up picking your major and then how did that impact your career path after graduation?
David Leander (04:55):
So for me, I started taking classes in a bunch of different disciplines as I started. And then as I kept going, I just sort of realized at the end of it that I could complete the three majors together. I did take some course overloads, which definitely helped make that possible, but I think for me, I really valued the idea of having a breadth of knowledge in different fields and being able to appreciate the different sort of interdisciplinary forces, I think was something that also became really apparent, especially between economics and other things like public health and the sciences.
Cassie Petoskey (05:34):
And then let's talk through right after post-graduation. You have this mix of experiences on campus. How did you approach finding the job after college?
David Leander (05:44):
So I think for me, I knew that I wanted to pursue something in healthcare. I was also pre-med at the time, but hadn't been prepared enough to take the MCAT before I graduate. But I knew I wanted to work in healthcare and I happened upon this posting for a job at Epic and I'd seen that it was a software company. I had no previous background in computer science or anything to do with software, but it sounded like an interesting company.
(06:19):
So what they do is provide medical records, electronic medical records, for hospitals and clinics around the country, and also internationally. And I saw it as a unique opportunity to get a new perspective on the healthcare field and some experience before potentially pursuing medical school. And so I think having a background in variety of things and being able to, I guess pick up things quickly was really something that helped me develop the skills necessary to do the job that I did right after college, which was in project management.
Cassie Petoskey (06:54):
And I know there's a lot of in-between, but I'd love to hear more about what you're doing these days in 60 seconds or less.
David Leander (07:02):
Right now, I'm finishing my MD and MBA at the Geisel School of Medicine and the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth. And I'm awaiting to begin my internship at Washington University in St. Louis.
(07:15):
In terms of how I've been spending my time otherwise during this interesting time, I've been working with hospitals on their telemedicine efforts, actually. And so I've been working as a telemedicine support specialist.
(07:34):
It's been pretty interesting to talk to patients about how to set up their devices and get ready for visits, since telemedicine obviously existed before this all happened, but it's really sort of exploded since it has become necessary at this point to do visits this way. So it's been really interesting to be a part of that.
Cassie Petoskey (07:55):
That is really interesting. Absolutely. Telemedicine was around, but now that it's a necessity, it's putting the rest of the 99% of the people on telemedicine is a huge challenge.
David Leander (07:55):
Right.
Cassie Petoskey (08:06):
And David, you're in a science, you're in healthcare, but how do you see your interdisciplinary background from an arts and science degree play out in your work?
David Leander (08:16):
I think having a background in the arts and sciences has sort of helped me maintain a multidisciplinary approach and curiosity about my future practice. And I think having this education that was based on a lot of topic switching, so the different classes I would have to switch between, and help helping develop that interdisciplinary toolkit, I think has been something that I've still continued to strive for when I approach new problems. It was one of the reasons why I pursued an MD and MBA, because I feel like having multiple perspectives and multiple different ways of looking at things is going to just improve the work that I do.
Cassie Petoskey (08:58):
Yeah, absolutely. And with your MD MBA, can you tell us a little bit more about what your hopes are to use that after you finish residency and all of those different things?
David Leander (09:09):
Having worked before medical school in the healthcare industry, I was able to see how much of a business healthcare is. And so I feel like as a future provider, I really wanted that management experience and sort of overview of just how business work and how business people think in order to go in as a provider and be able to be an effective contributor, not just for patients but also to healthcare systems.
(09:36):
I also felt like because I had worked in the technology industry for healthcare, I wanted to find a way that I'd be able to carve out a space for me to be working at the intersection of both healthcare and the business side of healthcare as it relates to technology, which is going to be a really big part of the next phase of healthcare.
Cassie Petoskey (09:58):
And it's interesting, because you started this obviously a while ago, but now so much has changed in our world. We're going through a global health crisis. I'm curious how this has impacted not only your work, but how you see this impacting and shifting your industry into the future.
David Leander (10:18):
Yes. The past several weeks and months have been quite different than what I expected the end of my graduate school experience to be, and so I had a lot of coursework online and my graduation, both my graduations have been made virtual and that definitely has been difficult.
(10:38):
But like I was saying before, I am really looking at the silver lining in all of this from the pandemic and looking at the future of telemedicine and that was something I was excited about before this all happened. But like I said, with everything happening and getting set up really quickly, I'm hoping that when everything settles down, that telemedicine still will be a big presence in healthcare and sort of shift the way that organizations approach, how to see patients in different ways. And so I'm really excited about that and what that will look like.
Cassie Petoskey (11:14):
And have you seen through your work with your telemedicine support as a telemedicine support specialist, how have you seen the adoption of that been going with the general public?
David Leander (11:28):
I think the adoption of telemedicine, it happened really quickly, and I think for some patients it's been really challenging. You know? I've had phone calls with patients who struggle with chronic illnesses that don't have the support that they need to really get their device set up in the right way or patients who need translation support or other support to help get them set up for their visits. I do feel like that it has been a struggle for certain patients and that part of making sure patients could all get on to the internet, I think, unfortunately wasn't as well fleshed out and that still needs to be worked out.
(12:11):
It's been really sad to talk to patients who maybe don't have that [inaudible 00:12:16] or don't have enough memory on their phone or just can't get to the visit for X, Y, or Z reason. I do feel like that part needs to be worked out in terms of what the future looks like so that everyone has the ability to see their doctor in this way. I'm looking forward to trying to address that challenge and what that could look like. I do feel like the technology aspect of it does span the generations and I think that will be something that needs to be addressed as well is how to make it easier and simpler for everyone to make it to their appointment.
Cassie Petoskey (12:55):
And speaking of challenges, we obviously have a ton of students at Northwestern who are pre-med and really excited about their path to medical school. And I'm curious. There's already, I'm sure, angst with preparing for medical school, but now with these uncertain times, that's amplified. I'm curious how the pandemic influenced your experience at medical school and if you could share a little bit more about that, your online coursework, and also now going to residency and how that's been shifted and evolved from the situation.
David Leander (13:28):
So I think medical education will still continue as plan. It just is going to happen in a sort of re-imagined way. So yes, a lot of the final courses that I was taking all were happening online and I know for other folks who had planned on doing other clerkships that would typically have been in person with patients got transitioned to virtual cases and things like that.
(13:53):
I would say for folks who are pre-med and looking to go to medical school either this year or in the near future, you should trust that medical education will still continue. And despite the fact that you might not be able to see patients in real life and be able to do exams and things like that, the process will still continue. I don't think that that should persuade you to not apply or to wait or things like that. It's still going to happen.
Cassie Petoskey (14:20):
How do you feel like it's been changing your residency experience now that you're going to start that this summer?
David Leander (14:27):
I think that's kind of hard. Just from some of the conversations we've had, it does sound like maybe certain rotations aren't seeing as many patients because of lower clinic volume, so there aren't as many patients in certain clinics or some specialty services might not have as many patients as they typically do.
(14:51):
Yeah, it's hard to really say because I haven't really started, but it just does seem like some shifting of focus is going to happen with regard to residency and just since the patients aren't there, it's necessarily going to change how that all shakes out. But I have confidence that even though it won't be the exact way it was maybe last year or the years before, is that something else will replace that and still be really valuable.
Cassie Petoskey (15:20):
Do you have any recommendations or advice for students who are interested in pursuing medical school period, but also during this time?
David Leander (15:29):
So I guess one thing that I would say about that is I think, at least during my time in college, I thought I kind of had this notion that medical school was right after college and you had to get everything ready. And if you didn't do that, then that sort of the ship has sailed. I guess I would encourage people to ... and I think this is sort of a general movement overall with folks going to medical school, is that there is value in taking time between college or medical school to do something unique or do something that'll just help your experience later on. I would say that I would still pursue medicine at this time despite some of the limitations that the current situation does present.
Cassie Petoskey (16:15):
That's great advice. And David, I'm curious from your experience at Northwestern on campus, taking so many different courses, and having these different experiences, do you have any advice that you want to leave with current Weinberg College students today?
David Leander (16:30):
Sure. I think I would still, looking back at my experience, and how sort of all over the place it was, I still would probably make very similar decisions if I had to do it again. I think that experience of chasing different classes, or even majors to some extent that I might not have otherwise thought of beforehand, I think was just really a valuable experience and something that ... you don't really get to do college over again. So I would look at it like this is your opportunity to be curious and seek out new experiences and different coursework that maybe you might not be able to get a chance to do later on. I would continue to have people look outside of what might be their comfort zone and keep sort of pushing that boundary.
Cassie Petoskey (17:22):
Taking advantage of the interdisciplinary nature of Weinberg and trying different courses I think is great advice. And David, it's been so great chatting with you today about your background, your experiences, and advice for students both pursuing medical school or general students at Northwestern. So thank you so much for being here with us
David Leander (17:44):
Today. Thank you, Cassie.
Cassie Petoskey (17:48):
For more information about Weinberg College and this podcast, please visit weinberg.northwestern.edu and search for Waldron. Also, we'd love to hear your feedback. Please email us waldron@northwestern.edu with your thoughts on today's program. Thank you again for tuning in to this episode of Weinberg in the World.