Weinberg College
of Arts & Sciences

Waldron Career Conversation with William Paik '20: Studying Stand-Up Comedy in Seoul

This episode of the Weinberg in the World Podcast features a conversation with William Paik ’20, who graduated from Northwestern with English and American Studies Majors and a Asian-American Studies Minor.

William shares insights on the Asian American Studies Program, Law school decisions, Comedy at Northwestern, Fulbright Research in Korea, how an Interdisciplinary education has helped him!

0:40: Student Experience
3:30: Moving away from Law school
6:25: Starting Comedy at Northwestern
10:15: First Job During the Pandemic
13:05: Experience During Research
15:00: Fulbright in Korea (here)
20:40: The Value of an Interdisciplinary Education

Cassie Petoskey:
Welcome to the Weinberg in the World Podcast, where we bring you stories of interdisciplinary thinking in today's complex world. This episode is brought to you by the Waldron Student Alumni Connections Program, a resource in Weinberg College where we help current students explore career options through making connections with alumni. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with William Paik. William graduated from Weinberg College in 2020 with majors in English and American Studies, and a minor in Asian American studies. He has been a comedian in the Chicago area since before he graduated, and plans to start a Fulbright studying comedy in South Korea this fall. Thanks so much for being here with us today, William.

William Paik:
Thanks, Cassie. Thanks for having me.

Cassie Petoskey:
Absolutely. We're excited to chat more about this Fulbright, but before we do that, we want to hear more about your student experience when you were on campus in Evanston. Can you share more about some of the impactful classes, internships, extracurriculars, things that you did while on campus that impacted you in your post grad path?

William Paik:
So I can kind of start with how I entered my Headspace, kind of entering Northwestern. In high school, I did mock trial for pretty much all through high school, so leaving and entering into Northwestern, I thought I was going to go to law school. I had this kind of vague idea that I would be a lawyer or something like that, but I wasn't necessarily sure. So that's why I chose English because it's a very flexible major. I was like, "Maybe I'll do this, maybe I'll do that," but I at least know that I want to do some kind of writing humanities thing. And so I was very attracted to the English major. And then slowly as I moved through Northwestern, I actually had a lot of feelings at the time about... as many people do coming in, they're like, "I need to understand what it means to be Asian-American," and stuff like that. And so I'd tell that to everyone that I met.
And then someone was like, "You need to get your stuff together and take an Asian-American studies class because that would really help you." And so I just followed that advice and I did. I think if I were to identify certain moments at Northwestern that I guess were important for my trajectory, I think that moment of taking that first class, it was a intro to history class, and it was through that. And I met someone who became very important for my college career. His name was Justin. He was actually a visiting assistant professor at the time. But he became very important for my both intellectual and maybe somewhat emotional development while I was at Northwestern. So that was very impactful. And then through him, I became acquainted more with the program itself. And then the Asian-American studies program at Northwestern became pretty much my second home on campus.
I did participate in some of the extracurricular activities and clubs and stuff like that. I did TaeKwonDo. I wrote for Sherman Abb a little bit. But I think in terms of what really helped me later on, I think it was being involved in the program that helped me in my career path.

Cassie Petoskey:
That's awesome. Finding a mentor. And you said Justin, and he was an alum as well, correct?

William Paik:
No, he was just a visiting assistant professor who came through. He's now at Singapore Management University.

Cassie Petoskey:
And you guys have stayed in touch?

William Paik:
Yeah, actually I called him last week pretty much.

Cassie Petoskey:
That's awesome. That's great. And so now I'm curious, you found a home in the Asian-American Studies Department program, and when did you start shifting gears away from law school? That is not what you're up to at this point.

William Paik:
There's a very specific moment that happens. I don't know how it is for everyone else, but during the first two years, you're kind of... it's a very fun time. You are just exploring. You're like, "I'm going to try photography. I'm going to try painting, I'm going to try all these things." And then for me, once I hit junior year, I was like, "Oh my God, my time here is not infinite. I cannot just keep taking... I need some kind of direction." It's not necessarily like, "Oh, you need to become a professional necessarily, but we don't have time to take drawing maybe now during college." And so I think someone told me that you go to the fellowship's office, they can help you figure out what kind of things you might want to do and then connect you with resources. So I went there and I had this conversation with Jason Roberts, one of the people who works there. He was like, "What do you want to do?" And I was like, "I want to go to law school."
And then he looked at me and he said, "That's not a career. That's a next step." And that moment I was like, "Oh my God, you're right. Say I do end up going after that. I'm not sure what I want to do or what my trajectory would look like after that." It's not that everyone has to have some kind of plan, but I think that moment made me realize that I didn't want to do that particularly. After that, I went back to the drawing board and reevaluated, and I was like, "What is it that I actually want to do?" I was lucky enough to have something like that. So since middle school, I've always been interested in standup. I watched a lot of stuff in middle school and then in high school. And then I would do open mics here and there on campus when they popped up. But they would be poetry, open mic, so it'd be someone with a very traumatic poem. And then I'd go and you'd go back to poetry. So that was basically the extent of my standup experience at that point.
So it was definitely an interest throughout, but I think it was that point that I was like, "I think I'm going to try to see if I could take this seriously and turn it into some kind of career." I think that was a tipping point or that was another point of change in my college career.

Cassie Petoskey:
Absolutely. Another really helpful mentor story of going to the fellowship's office and receiving some of those insights to help you think through, "Okay, what is it that I want?" And you ended up doing much more comedy. You did some more experiences while you were an undergrad, before graduating. Can you tell us more about how that worked within your schedule while you were still on campus and you were able to do some of those? The internships and some of the standup in Chicago, I believe.

William Paik:
Do you mean how it worked with my schedule and stuff like that?

Cassie Petoskey:
Yeah. And how you found it, and just your mindset too of, "Hey, this could be a career path." How did that shift over time?

William Paik:
So during my first three years of undergrad, I didn't really... again, I was not very sure or I was not very... Not very sure, also not very confident in the stuff I wanted to do. And so I did research for most of my time because I think my thinking at the time was like, "You're going to have your whole life to work, but this time is a very special time to come up with something that you want to look at. Go and look at it, mess around, maybe study something that you're interested in." Also, research was the thing that paid on campus. So my first year I stayed in Evanston and I looked at social movements in Seattle. Very fun time for me. I loved staying on campus my first summer, that was a great summer. And then my second summer I went to Berkeley and I looked at the kind of alt-right activity that was going on there. My research was about how they manipulate the press and public discourse and stuff like that to get what they want. And that was also a lot of fun too.
And then my junior year, I stayed on campus, and again... I was doing two things. I was turning the research from that summer into my senior thesis. And then I also got an internship through... there's this one thing that the Asian American Studies program has called the... it's the Community Summer Development Fellowship. And it's, at the time, it was like $4,000 to go and work with a nonprofit. And I was like, "Maybe I could a comedy troupe or some kind of cultural org that would let me work with them." And so I worked with this group called Stir Friday Night, and they were an improv troupe. I think at the time, they didn't really know what to do with me. I was just kind of like an intern who showed up. But in some ways that worked in my favor because they were just like, "Okay, you can watch your shows hang out, and the rest of the time go out into the city and do open mics." And so that's what I did for that summer.
I would start my day, do whatever I had to do in the morning, work on my senior thesis, read some articles or a book or whatever. And then in the evening, I would go out into the city, do a mic, watch a show, and then come back to Evanston. And so that was also a lot of fun too. I enjoyed that kind of lifestyle. So I did that, and then once the school year hit, I was like, "Can I do this? Can I do my classes and still go out virtually every night into the city and do stand-up?" And fortunately, it worked out pretty well because I'd done a lot of academic work beforehand. When you're a freshman, sophomore, there's a lot of change that happens to the way you're thinking and stuff like that. I already finished a lot of that, and by the time I was a senior, I was like, "Okay, I'm very used to taking classes. I'm very used to thinking about these certain things, so I don't have to put as much effort into schoolwork itself."
And then that made it easier to go out, do shows and come back. And so that's what I did for basically, I think it was three or four months before the pandemic kind of hit.

Cassie Petoskey:
Right. And then you're a 2020 grad, so you're graduating into the heat of the pandemic. What was your first job? What were those first months and how did that impact... was it a good fit? You learn from that? And how did that impact your path from there?

William Paik:
There was that sense of uncertainty, but also it's just in the beginning, I think this kind of is an everyone thing too, where it's, in the beginning it was easier for us to deal with. That's when everyone was doing push-ups, being like, "This is what I'm going to get in shape," and all that stuff. And so I basically just hung out with my girlfriend at the time a lot. I was very glad to spend that kind of time. And we watched a lot of TV, we played video games, and I wasn't necessarily really thinking about anything career wise at the time, I don't think. Also, I had, for the summer, I had this archive job from the program too, from the Asian-American Studies program because they looked at me and they were like, "Well, you don't have a job." And I was like, "Yeah, I don't have a job." And they're like, "Well, you could do this for us." And I was like, "Okay, I'll do this for you. There's no other option really."
I did research for them, and my research project was about the 1995 hunger strike that started the program. So it was my job to go back to the hunger strikers who are now in their 40s who were here in the 90s, and I interviewed them, collected whatever stuff they were willing and able to give me and cataloged it. And that was basically the job that I had for the last two years since graduating up until now. It is not the most stable job because research is also not very stable either. It was very flexible, which I did like. So it did allow me to work when I wanted to work, and that was very good for stand-up because stand-up is less flexible. So the two could fit together. For instance, if my daily cycles got so out of whack, I could do an open mic or show in the evening, come home at 12, and then work from 12 to four or even later.
Some days were easier than others. But I did appreciate that flexibility, and I think that's what that job gave me. It allowed me to do both, and it allowed me to have both the academic credential that is important for what I'm trying to do, as well as continue building my career in the stand-up way as well.

Cassie Petoskey:
That's really interesting. And I know I want to hear more about your current plans for your Fulbright this fall, but I am curious if there's anything through your research around the '95 hunger strike that started the program, if there's any insights from alumni that kind of hit home to you, anything that you found in your research that was just bits of information that just stuck with you that'll impact your path?

William Paik:
This isn't from alumni, but I did speak with some administrators who are still alive. Actually, I spoke with President Henry Beenan. I think the view that they gave of the university, I don't necessarily know what specifically it gave me, but that I think having that understanding of the university was very interesting for me. And I think if I were to somehow transfer it to something else, it's just to always be aware of what people who are in positions of power are thinking and feeling, because that influences decisions that they make. I don't think it's necessarily a, "Be sympathetic to them kind of thing," because they're still holding a certain amount of power and still responsible for decisions that happen within a university or whatever. But I think having that awareness... I think this project did give me that kind of awareness. Northwestern definitely looks a lot different from the perspective of the administrators than it does for the students or even the faculty.

Cassie Petoskey:
Super interesting. The perspectives and the power structures.

William Paik:
Or to add something, for instance, it's just if you're a dean having to run around and pull resources together and figure out how to build a program, and there's a lot of that work that doesn't necessarily get publicized as much. That view of the university was very interesting to me.

Cassie Petoskey:
Absolutely. Very interesting. William, I know you're heading to South Korea here very soon, at the time of our recording, weeks away. So can you share a little bit more about your Fulbright and what you're hoping to accomplish with it, the Fellowship's office? How did they help you through that process? And if you can just share a little bit more about the impact you're hoping that'll have on your career.

William Paik:
For the Fellowship's office, Jason was very supportive through the whole process. I would not be able to do this without his help. And it was also very nice because I actually... this is actually my second time applying to this. So the first time I applied to the Fulbright, it was for Malaysia because they have a very strong standup scene along with Singapore. And then while I was doing research for that, I found an article about Korea's standup scene. And my thought was like, "If I were to do this again, I would like to... maybe if I had more time, I would pivot to Korea instead." And fortunately, I got rejected, so more time did come, and I was able to rework the project that I had from Malaysia to Korea. This is actually the second time I've tried this. It was very good working with the fellowship's office because once I started applying for Korea, Jason already saw me apply for Malaysia. He saw clips that I sent him stand-up, and so he was like, "This guy..." It was very easy to just hit the ground running with that relationship.
I think the first time, it's you mentioned that you're doing this kind of thing, people go like, "Oh, we will see." They look at you and they go, "Maybe this guy could be delusional." Which fair enough. Second time I did that, I didn't have to prove anything, so we could just be like, "Okay, now let's start working." And so that relationship was very helpful to me. And doing something called... What I wrote down was I'm doing a participant observation ethnography, so it's like there's a certain group of people and scene in this instance Seoul's stand-up scene. And what another anthropologist told me once was, it's really just hanging out, take notes, what you see, what you experience, that kind of thing. So there's that aspect of it. And then also while doing that, you build rapport with people so that you may interview them. And so part of it is my field notes, part of it is interviews, and then the third part of it is actual performance. It's these three things combined.
So my plan is to recording interviews and then recording other people's sets, permissions and stuff like that, other people's sets and recording my own sets. And so by the time I leave, I have all this archive material and field work completed. And from there, once I have that then starts the long process of turning it into something academic, like a paper or something like that, and taking the stuff and connecting it to different discussions within fields. My research on the alt-right in Berkeley was about their interactions, and it was really a project about public discourse, which is very broad term, really just like, "It's everything." That kind of stuff carried into this project where it's people talking, people interfacing with the culture around what you can say and what you can't say. That's where the stuff that I'm collecting fits into discussions outside of standup. So it's not just, "We're just going to look at the history and it will be a..." No, the goal is to connect it to some kind of discussion.
I think a good example of this is there's this guy, Stuart Hall, and he has a book about the word mugging. And so he really looking at, "Statistics of mugging and how the word mugging is moving in society and stuff like that." No one really cares about the mugging. We just care about what he's saying about what mugging says about how the press plays a role in our society. That's kind of what the aim is for this project.

Cassie Petoskey:
That's so interesting. We will have to follow you and do a follow-up after you finish your project to hear more about what you connected with and whatnot. And William, how long are you staying in South Korea?

William Paik:
It depends. The grant period itself is 10 months, but people sometimes stay past their grant period for a year. It's 10 months to a year.

Cassie Petoskey:
Very cool. And this might be a silly question, but is the stand-up in... what language are you going to be observing and doing comedy in?

William Paik:
I aim to do it in Korean. My Korean itself is okay, but actually I anticipate the actual performing not to be as bad as interviews. And if I try to do crowd work or something like that. For a set itself, it's just something you work on and then you... you can work on it as much as you want, and then you just perform it, right? That's basically a language class, have a script, but instead of, "Hello, welcome to the restaurant," it's your bits. I could be wrong. That could be very difficult, but I anticipate the interviews and stuff that is more on the fly to be more challenging because that takes more fast thinking than performing a set does.

Cassie Petoskey:
Absolutely. So you are bilingual, or at least bilingual, I should say?

William Paik:
One and a half, I think.

Cassie Petoskey:
Great. I cannot wait to hear more about this. It's fun chatting with you leading into the Fulbright, what your hopes are, and I can't wait to see what you come up with after. And my last question for you, William today, is how you see your arts and sciences background as an asset to you in your work, your research, and your comedy? How has it been an asset?

William Paik:
That's a difficult question because it's like when you swim in something for so long, it's hard to differentiate what is actual background and what isn't. But it definitely helps. The writing definitely helps for stand-up and being aware of what... or understanding what works and what doesn't. When I was doing my research in Berkeley, what I had was actually... I was actually trying to look at the alt-right activity and student protests at the same time. And I realized through conversations with Justin, he was like, "These are actually two different projects." And so a similar thing happens in a lot of other stuff too, where, "I have my 30-minute set," and it's like, "Do you actually have 30 minutes or is it just two different projects that you're working on at the same time?" I think the writing process definitely helps. I think one thing that we didn't cover was...
I think one of the main things, or one of the most valuable things I took away from my time at Northwestern was the ability to find resources and use that or how to take what I wanted to do and then turn it into something where I could get money to do what I wanted to do. So when I was starting stand up, I got a... I would submit to stuff on... people would put out calls on Facebook, they'd be like, "Hey, do you want to do a show?" And stuff like that. And then I submitted to a show in LA and then they got back to me, and then they were like, "Yeah, come on down." And I was like, "Okay, maybe I can find money somewhere to figure out how to come on down." I kind of flashed back to a conversation with the research office at Northwestern, and they were like, "Everything is research." And I was like, "You're right, everything is research."
And so I sent them an email and I was basically like, "Hey, open mics and stand-up is research, and this show is somewhat like a conference. And so what if I use the conference grant for people going to conferences to present their research? What if I use the conference grant to go to LA?" And then they were like, "Okay, you go. Do that." And I was like, "Wow. Can't believe that worked." And it did work because being an undergrad, you have a certain amount of... people give you a lot of things when you're in undergrad. And then I was like, "Okay, let's try this again." And so a few months later, I submitted to a festival in New York and the same thing happened. They were like, "Yeah, come on down." And I was like, "All right, let's do this again. So, hey, this festival is like a conference. What if I use another conference grant?" And they were like, "Okay, we kind of see what you're doing, but you go do you, but this is the last time." And I was like, "Great. Well, I'm graduating in a few months, so perfect."
So those two times I was like, "I can take money from places to do the things that I want to do." So that was basically my goal for the rest of the year. And it's kind of the same thing that I'm doing right now, just figuring out how to do what I want to do and then turn it into something that someone else would want to fund basically. And just my personal credentials and background lends itself to the kind of career that I'm making right now. I do have the academic chops and the performance chops, and the two are... I'm playing the two together and turning into the Fulbright basically. Maybe your two things are different, maybe... I know this one guy, and he was an improviser, but also a painter, and so a lot of his customers who would buy paintings were people within the comedy scene. And he's the only painter I know. If I had to buy a painting, I'd be like, "I'll head up Zach." I don't know.
I wouldn't push anyone to be like, "Do everything, but there's definitely two things that you're interested in, and those two can be blended together into something unique." it's not necessarily one or the other, but it's just a mixing of the two, I think.

Cassie Petoskey:
Absolutely. I love that and how you've been able to be creative and thinking through how you can combine the two and find the resources for it. It's really interesting and so valuable for our current students to hear your perspective and just from where you went, coming in thinking maybe law school to having these pivots and finding your home in Northwestern and now doing some research in comedy, it's fascinating. And William, we will have to have you back on to hear more about your project next year or in a year and a half once you're completed. But really, thank you so much for taking time to chat with us today and share these insights and advice with current students.

William Paik:
No problem. Thanks for having me.

Cassie Petoskey:
Thanks for listening. If you want to hear more of these conversations, links to the full videos and podcasts are below. For more information about Weinberg College and this podcast, visit weinberg.northwestern.edu and search for Waldron. As always, we would love to hear your feedback. Please email us with your thoughts on the program. Have a great day, and Go Cats.