Weinberg College
of Arts & Sciences

Live Interview with Dr. Adrianne Wilson '14

Dr. Adrianne Wilson shares her journey from an environmental science major at Weinberg College to earning her master’s and PhD in marine biology and ecology. She is now a postdoc at NOAA, focusing on metagenomics and computational science.

Transcript:

Cassie Petoskey:
Hi everyone. Thanks so much for being here. My name is Cassie Petoskey. I use she or they pronouns, and I'm the director of the Waldron Student-Alumni Connections Program, which is all about helping Weinberg College students explore career options through connecting with alumni. So we're really excited for this conversation today with DEEPS. I won't say the full name. I'll let Trish take that role for me, but we're partnering with the department on this great event to hear from Dr. Wilson. Really excited for the discussion and I'll pass it over to Trish for a little more information about DEEPS.

Trish:
Hey y'all. So we have our environmental science program, which is our undergraduate program, and I'm pleased to report, share out, not news to many of you, but news to some, we are now officially the Department of Earth Environmental and Planetary Sciences, which brings you fully into a department home with a whole wealth of additional resources that you had no clue existed and that you wanted and that you'll benefit from. So really looking forward to continuing to help your growth and trajectory.
Partly when Brandon, who's one of your student advisory board reps came forward and said, "Hey, let's do something that's really going to bring together alumni and our students," we've had some earlier efforts, especially in the dark days of Covid where a weird graduation, I don't know if I want to call it a gift, but a token of support was connecting our graduating students with alumni who represented their future selves. And so that was something that we did through Covid. Mind you in Covid, we did everything we could in odd ways, but this is so much nicer and so grateful that you have brought this forward and is blooming and that we have connected with Adrienne, Dr. Wilson, who graduated in 2014. Sounds like a long time ago. Right?

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
It is, yeah.

Trish:
And with that, over to you guys and just so much gratitude and happiness.

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
Well, thank you for having me. I think it's a great program and it's one that did not exist when I was here. I graduated in 2014. I was an environmental science major. I went to get my master's also in environmental science from Florida A&M University in Tallahassee, Florida. And then I got my PhD in marine biology and ecology from the University of Miami, and I graduated last September. So yeah.
Now I am a postdoc at NOAA, so I don't know if everybody is familiar with that organization, but I am at their Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory. I'm in the ocean, chemistry and ecosystem division, and my lab focuses mostly on metagenomics and computational science.
So I think my passion for the ocean started when I was very young. I actually grew up in Evanston. I went to elementary school at Lincoln Elementary near here, and I lived across the street from Lake Michigan. And so I got to see how the seasons changed the lake and oftentimes there were fish kills and I would always wonder what was going on in the water that was causing the fish to wash up. And how come when I was at the beach, I never got to see them alive. And I was wondering, I think that fueled my curiosity about what's happening underneath the surface of the ocean. What are the dynamics that are going on that are influencing organisms that are living underneath the surface? And I also watched a lot of Shark Week on the Discovery Channel growing up, and it seemed so cool to have a job that you could be out on the water and catching sharks or swimming with fish. And so I knew probably in elementary school that I wanted a career that allowed me to be on the water.
The deep sea ones were always my favorite 'cause they always talk about how the deep ocean is not as well known as space. And so seeing all the different organisms down there that bioluminesce, I was really excited about what's going on under there. After I lived in Evanston, I moved to South Florida, so I was in West Palm and a lot of the middle schools and high schools down there had environmental science tracks that you could participate in from sixth grade on. So my middle school, I was involved in environmental science and they took us out on field studies and they took us camping. And then in high school, I think the studies got a little bit more dynamic and we had a little bit more agency into designing our own science projects. And so we were able to go to the Everglades and go to the ocean.
And I think my high school professors were, or high school teachers were marine science majors as well. So a lot of the coursework that we were doing revolved around the ocean and still fish and marine science in general. And so I think that kind of solidified that this was something that I was passionate about and something that I wanted to stick with.
And then when I came here, so my mom went to Kellogg and I was choosing between Northwestern and UCLA because I think UCLA had a marine science program where Northwestern had the environmental science program. And I was kind of concerned about whether or not I was going to be able to still be connected to marine science even though that wasn't my major. But I ended up coming here, great decision, and I was able to intern at the Shedd Aquarium while I was here. And so that's kind of where I still was able to get my marine science work in. And also when I was here, I worked with Dr. Shelby Hatch, and I was able to do independent research studies where I was working with water quality and looking at runoff and excess nutrients in water and how that was affecting the environment. And so I think every step of my academic journey, I've been very intentional about sticking with environmental science and finding ways I can research the things that I'm interested in, like fish and water.
I liked the idea of going to a bunch of different institutions. When I was at Northwestern, I believe I may have been the only Black woman in the environmental science track for my four years, or if I wasn't, it definitely felt that way in all of my classes. And so after I left Northwestern, I wanted to go to an institution where I didn't feel so much like an other in my field and I could focus more on the actual science and less about how I was presenting myself to my peers and my professors.
And so I ended up going to an HBCU, which is a historically Black college or university, and that was Florida A&M University. And so it was predominantly black students in my cohort and that allowed me to focus more on my science. But also when I was here, I did the Northwestern Externship program and that connected me to a NOAA mentor in South Florida. And so that way I was able to have that connection and then they helped facilitate my research for my masters, but also influenced my decision for my PhD program because they were based in Miami. And so having that connection, I was able to visit the University of Miami. I applied to a lot of institutions and I got to visit them all, which I think is very important when you're picking a graduate program. But I think I wanted to be somewhere that I felt I fit in.
And there are a lot of marine science institutions on the coast, but a lot of them are in really small towns and sometimes those towns are not diverse. And after my experience here and my experience at Florida A&M, I knew I wanted to be in a bigger city that was still diverse and that ended up being the University of Miami. But I think when you're picking an institution, a lot of times you go where there's funding.
So when I got into my PhD program, I spent a lot of time at Northwestern in student groups and participating in, it wasn't necessarily diversity, equity and inclusion at the time, it was more so I was finding my space and finding a community that I fit in and could talk about my struggles and my program, feeling like I was alone. And so when I got to my PhD program, I was kind of tired of advocating for myself and fighting for a place that I felt I fit in and forcing people to acknowledge my skills and not just that I'm a woman or that I'm Black, which I can't hide those things, but I'm in this program because I want to be a fantastic scientist.
And a lot of times that was not the focus of discussions that I was having. And during my PhD, I went in with the intention of just doing my science and getting out. But as another single Black person in my program, there were maybe five of us during the six years that I was there that came in and out. And some of them left the program because they didn't feel supported by their professors, their peers. And that's sad to see when we're already so underrepresented that you're now leaving your institution where you were supposed to develop into a great scientist and follow your passions for the field. I don't think it's fair to attend an institution and be forced out because people don't know how to interact with you in a kind way. And so seeing the frustration with my friends and people who I thought could have succeeded in this program, that's when I got more involved in DEI efforts.
And so I joined the diversity equity inclusion committee at my institution. I became president of the Black Graduate Student Association at the University of Miami, which the student group wasn't active at the time. So I reactivated it and I fought to have programs and for them to acknowledge that your students are not having a great time and my peers are able to matriculate through their program, focus on their research and get out and not have any issues with how they're being spoken to or how they're being perceived by their professors. And so I think as an institution, it is unfortunate, but I do think a lot of the work falls on the students, which is not fair that the marginalized group is now having to fight to be acknowledged. But that was what changed my experience at the University of Miami since after I joined and I talked to a lot of students and found out that a lot of people were experiencing microaggressions and discrimination throughout their program.
And we organized and we wrote a petition that we submitted to our dean. And through that we were able to get implicit bias training as a requirement for undergraduate students and graduate students. And we are still working on it to make it a requirement for faculty and staff, but it is a video that they could take. It's optional for them right now. But that was not something that was available when I first started. And I also had conversations with them about recruiting from diverse institutions. So when you look at where Northwestern or even other institutions and their programs are going to recruit their students, are you being intentional about going to diverse areas? And then after you get those students, you can't just bring them here and then expect them to have a good time. You have to have programs in place to make sure that they feel included in the social scene.
I didn't feel that way at UN when I started. I was not participating in the student group activities because I felt so different from everyone else. I think as a student and as a student group, a student body, you can organize and talk to other about what negative experiences you're having and come up with a plan about how to, everybody here is extremely smart, I know that, and you guys can organize it and come up with something that is received well by your faculty and staff. And sometimes they'll still fight back. But I think if you're organized well enough and you also make it known, I think social media helps a lot talking about and highlighting issues and universities don't want bad press. So I think that's a great way to force them to acknowledge your issues and find solutions so that you can feel included in your spaces.
So how you can get involved in inclusivity. My mind goes back to social media. That's kind of where I connect with other people who look like me or I relate to in the field. There's so many people who are on, I'm not on TikTok, but there's people who are on to talk and on Instagram that talk about marine science and their passions, and I connect with them through there. But there's also lots of organizations. There's one called Minorities in Shark Science, and they start with high school students and bringing them out into the field and teaching them about tagging sharks and why shark conservation is important. So there's these groups that you can connect with before you get to college. And I also reach out to different organizations. I don't know if people are familiar with Jack and Jill, but it's like Boys and Girls Club, and I work with them to bring elementary school students to talk about marine science as a career option.
And I think starting off so early, getting them excited about fish and getting them excited about dolphins as a third-grader helps them consider it as a career option because I don't have any other marine scientists in my family. It was through my parents' encouragement and also my passion for it that I was able to continue in it. But I think exposing students early. And then you all talking everything that you've learned here, taking it back to your community and talking to people who are younger than you, going back to your high schools and talking to those students, I think is a great way to get people inspired. And when they see somebody that looks like them or they can relate to doing these things, then it's easier for them to feel like, okay, I can do it too and they're doing it, and I can reach out to them for support as well.
So the work that I'm doing now is different than the work that I did for my PhD research, which was, it was intentional, but I thought when leaving my PhD, I would feel more confident in my skill set and what I was doing. I would go into my job and feel like, okay, I know what I'm doing. But I went into a field, I do EDNA work and metabarcoding. So day to day, right now, I'm mostly data entry. So it's a lot of looking at metadata, making sure that those sheets are consistent. And also we have a lot of raw sequences of environmental DNA that we have. So I've been running those through bioinformatics pipelines that my boss has developed. The whole goal of all of our projects is to kind of standardize the way that environmental DNA is gathered, processed and analyzed.
And so a lot of my work is revolved around putting our sequences from different projects through that pipeline, seeing how it works, seeing what data we can get. We do a lot of taxonomic assignment to those sequences, and there's so many different programs that you can use to assign classifications to your sequences. And so we're going through the process of trying to figure out which is the best database to use.
A lot of my work is with data analysis, data visualization, looking at trends for our data. One of the main projects that I'm working on is a sediment trap project. And so we have this huge apparatus that's kind of a giant funnel, and there's a series of bottles that are rotated underneath the funnel, and it sits out about 600 meters deep in the Gulf of Mexico and collects marine snow. The bottles are open anywhere between seven to 21 days where we're collecting that sediment and collecting water. And I was recently on a research cruise to retrieve the trap and that sediment and that water is then filtered and we extract the DNA from that. And then there's people in the lab, I don't have to be in the lab anymore, which I'm kind of excited about because it's a lot of work, there's people in the lab who process the water samples and then send it off for sequencing, and then I'm the person who uses that data to figure out what is going on.
Ideally, we're looking at the microbial communities that are present throughout the water column and what organisms are involved with biogeocarbon cycle in the Gulf of Mexico. So right now I'm learning a lot of the skills about how to process environmental DNA, and I'm looking at microbial communities, but I would like to see how those processes could be used and applied to fisheries science in terms of biodiversity monitoring.
One of the other projects that I'm working on is looking at traditional monitoring techniques, using camera traps and comparing what we detect with the camera traps to what we're able to detect with environmental DNA. And I like the idea of using environmental DNA in stock assessments in fisheries and determining where stocks are spawning and the health of a fishery, how many fish are in the area, and if they're overfished, are we fishing them sustainably? Applying eDNA into those sorts of projects I think is really, so if I'm able to continue doing that at NOAA, then absolutely I would love to stay. I think it's a great work environment. Everybody is very passionate about the work that they're doing and there's lots of opportunities to work on different projects. I think I dealt with it a little bit more during my actual PhD.
There's a lot of rules around sampling different organisms. I was working on lane snapper, which is related to red Snapper, but smaller and more popular in recreational fisheries. And I had to collect fish that were below the legal minimum size. So when it came to policy, having to write letters to the local and state government to get permits to be able to sample, I think is probably the closest that I got to actual maybe ethics. But in terms of policy, my entire PhD project was about updating data on this species so we could better manage it. So I was looking at the rate at which this species grows its maximum size, what is the best size to catch it legally so that it had a chance to reproduce before we were removing it from the fishery. And so a lot of my work revolved around the biology of the organism, and then that is then used to influence policy.
And so the last chapter of my dissertation, it was a management strategy evaluation where I was simulating what it would be like if we changed the fishing regulations on that species and how it would impact the fishery. And so I think that's kind of where my work overlaps with policy. But I think my passion more so revolves around just bringing out data, looking at an organism, looking at the dynamics within an ecosystem, and then giving that to policymakers to make decisions on how to best manage and make sure fisheries are sustainable.
I'm going to talk about Northwestern since we're here. I think while I was here, I was really stressed out in school. I had my fair share of crying over exam scores and wondering whether or not I should drop classes and being generally frustrated with how challenging the coursework can be here. But after I left Northwestern, I have never been so prepared for every other program that I've entered.
Through my master's program, through my PhD program, I have never had issues with understanding my course material, being able to have creative problem solving. I think Northwestern, I got a great foundation for my academics moving forward. So while I was in it, I hated it. I was really sad. But I think that looking back, I can appreciate how rigorous the coursework is here because I have not struggled academically since I've left. PhD programs come up with other issues that you'll face, but none of them were my ability to perform well in class and perform well with my research and feel confident in building a project and following through with it. So I think my undergraduate self would be surprised that I'm saying this now.
So also when I was here, I had professors who were very supportive, but I also had professors who encouraged me to change my major if I was not doing well in their class, they told me it might be easier if I did something else.
And so I think having those moments of doubt about whether or not I could accomplish and get to where I am today, I think in those moments when you're talking to a professor and they're telling you that maybe this is not where you should be, that can be very disheartening and you're wondering whether or not you're making the right choice by fighting through this class or not dropping it, and maybe you're getting a C minus in the class, like, oh, are you going to be able to get into grad school with that grade? I think perseverance I learned here and throughout my academic journey to keep going despite what others perceive your abilities to be. If you feel strongly that it's something that you want to continue doing and maybe you have to take summer classes, I took summer classes every summer semester I was here. To be able to focus on a course that's harder, I think perseverance definitely is another skill that I earned here.
If you're interested in a PhD, it's fine to go right into it. I did a master's first, but also I think that was because of my grades leaving Northwestern. It was hard for me to get into a PhD program straight away.
So I did a master's program and what I learned in my master's program is that your advisor really makes or breaks your graduate experience. So when you are looking for a graduate program to attend, you might be very excited about the research that that advisor is doing. I think it's very important to speak to their current grad students without the professor in the room so you can get an honest idea of what their experience has been like working with that person. My master's was challenging in that my advisor left my committee in my second year of my master's program and I had to find somebody else. But that experience taught me to be very thorough when I was picking my PhD program about making sure that I visited every institution that I was applying to.
Oftentimes for PhD programs, they will fly you out to visit the institution, so you don't have to worry about that. But speaking to the professors, speaking about their research, but also speaking to their students about how long they've been in their program.
You don't want to go to an institution where people are taking five years to do a master's or people are taking eight years, which sometimes happens, to do a PhD. And learning about whether or not their advisor is somebody who is easy to work, not just with their students, but also with people in the department because oftentimes your committee is going to have multiple people in your department working on your committee, and you want to make sure it's not difficult for you to complete your research because of relationships that they have.
So I think the transition from undergrad to a graduate program, it would be easier or you'd make your experience easier by being very thorough about where you choose to go and who you choose to advise you. Because a PhD, it's a really long commitment and it's hard and you don't want to be working under somebody who makes it harder than it needs to be because of how maybe their mentorship style doesn't work for you or the way that they communicate doesn't work for you.
So when I was an undergrad, I thought of LinkedIn as my mom's social media, so I wasn't really on it, but I think that it's a fantastic way to network. Even in undergrad, if you're doing research projects and you're going to conferences or you're presenting your research, posting that on your LinkedIn and connecting with your professors here, I think is a great way to showcase the work that you're doing and make it known to other institutions that you are doing cool science.
I use Instagram a lot for networking, and I think it's very important. I have a professional account and I have a private account, and so being very intentional about what you're putting on your social media and how that's going to age five, 10 years down the line is really important. So maybe you have two accounts where you have one where you're showcasing your work and your career aspirations and what internships you have, and then you have the other one for when you're out with your friends. That way you have this account that you can bring people to look at the work that you're doing. You can connect with other scientists. That's what I do all the time. I am on social media looking at other research projects that people are doing. And people will post like, "Oh, I'm studying swordfish" or "I'm studying jellyfish." It's like, well, I know somebody who was studying jellyfish, and you can connect people through that and then building connections for other people makes them want to help you as well.
Or maybe they have a friend who is also studying fisheries research and they're like, "Oh, let me put you in contact with this person." And you can do all of that through Instagram. I think my LinkedIn is how I got connected to be here. I'm posting about my research, I'm updating about where I am, the new physicians that I have, I think is a great way to network if you're not great at networking in social settings. I am not great at small talk. I'm not great in a group setting, introducing myself and talking to people and feeling confident and sharing my work that way. So doing it on my own terms on social media I think is a great way to still make those connections without feeling so uncomfortable.
I also did the externship program, so that connected me with someone. I think it's also really great to look for somebody who is in the position that you want to be in and email them and say, "You are doing the work that I want to do and I'm just interested in learning about how you got to this space," and setting up a Zoom call or even just a list of interview questions that they can answer. Then you're connected with that person that way, and that's how I got my master's internship and research. And so yeah, LinkedIn, Instagram and just reaching out to people and saying, "I'm a student and I'm interested in your career path and how I can get to where you are."
I think looking back now, I spent a lot of time at Northwestern being really stressed out about my coursework, really stressed out about my grades, really stressed out about whether or not I was taking the right classes at the right time. And I think it's very important obviously to build your CV and be prepared for the next thing that you're going to do, but being an undergrad is such a unique experience and you're never going to get it back, and it's so nice to be with your friends in this space, living next to each other, being able to go to lunch with each other or breakfast and hang out while also getting a great education and learning together.
When you graduate, your friends are going to spread out. I have friends who are in London, I have friends who are in California. I have friends who are in Nigeria, and we will likely never be in the same place again. So while your academics are incredibly important, I think it's also important to foster the relationships that you have with your friends because this experience is not going to happen after you graduate again. And the friendships that I made here, they have supported me through grad school. When I'm frustrated, when I feel isolated, I'm reaching out to them for support, and those are the people who are going to be in my wedding in March, and those are relationships that I built here. So making sure that you take the time to actually have fun with your friends I think is really important because the academics are forever and you're here already, so I'm sure you'll do fantastic academically, but enjoying your time as an undergrad with maybe your favorite people in life.

Speaker 4:
Thank you for your talk. So I know you said that you had a passion for marine sciences since you were really young, and you were also discussing how there were times in your undergrad experience where people were saying to switch majors. You probably had self-doubt in those moments. So I'm just wondering what solidified your choice within yourself to continue with environmental science and pursue marine biology when there were moments of doubt or unsure if this was actually something that you wanted to do.

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
I think I really love fish. I love studying fish. I love looking at fish. I love eating fish. And so I think in those moments where people were telling me that I maybe would not be successful in this career path, I don't think that they knew everything about me. Perhaps in this chemistry class I am doing, but outside of that or the fact that I'm still working so hard in this class to even if it is a C grade, that's my best. I did it. I got a C. Proving them wrong I think was my biggest motivation. You do not know my entire background. You don't know the family that I came from. I had a very supportive family. So when I'm hearing these things from people who don't really know me well, I would go back to them and they would remind me, you got into this institution on your own merits and with the skills that you have, and perhaps that class isn't working for you, but that doesn't mean that the entire career won't work for you.
And having friends who support your passions as well, and they see how excited you are when you're talking about whatever it is that you're excited about and having them encourage you to keep going as well. Also, I think looking back on the things that you've already accomplished as a reminder that you are capable of continuing forward, I think is a great reminder.
So I've had lectures that I've given that people, instead of focusing on my science, are talking about my appearance. "You should straighten your hair instead of wearing your hair the way that it is." Or "Black people don't do marine science. I didn't even know you could swim." Things that are really frustrating, that are absurd to hear, but people still say to you. I think my biggest motivation is proving them wrong. So being able to show up here and say, I have my PhD now and there are professors here that I would love to speak to you today and show them that despite their lack of confidence in what I was doing at the time, I'm still here and I've succeeded and now I'm at my dream job. So not letting other people's perception of you and your abilities to stop you from following your passion, I think is the biggest thing you can do in moments where you feel like you don't belong or that you're not as good as your peers.

Amelia:
Hi, I'm Amelia. Thanks for being here.

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
Thank you.

Amelia:
I was just thinking about the work that you do now. You do a lot of stuff with data, computer aspects, so did you do a lot of that before you got this job or is it a lot of learning where you are as you go?

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
But when I was an undergrad, I was not doing anything related to what I'm doing now. During my master's and my PhD, a lot of the skills that I'm using today are skills that I in my master's and PhD program. So coding, NR, Python, all of that I learned through coursework in graduate school and a lot of those skills that I learned then I am using at my job now. But I was not doing eDNA, metabarcoding and bioinformatics as heavily as I am now when I was in school. So I think a postdoc is great for learning new skills or developing previous skills and having a boss that wants to teach you those things you learn on the job.

Speaker 6:
I remember you said earlier that undergrad really prepared you for grad school, but there was certain surprises in grad, like PhD that is different from undergrad. I just wanted to ask what specifically.

Dr. Adrianne Wilson:
So a lot of my friends are doctors, attorneys, consultants. They did not pursue a PhD. I feel like MDs can compare, but a lot of people out of undergrad will get a job and continue throughout their career path and it's kind of hard to still be in school when your friends are making a lot more money than you 'cause you're on a graduate stipend and they're traveling and they're going all these places and you're in school and you're focused on whatever research project that you're on. I think those are frustrations that aren't really talked about in grad school. But then also if you get a master's and you get a PhD, you're going to be in your late twenties and your early thirties. And so life is changing a lot in that time where maybe your parents are getting sick, maybe your friends are getting sick, people are getting married, people are having kids, and you're in school.
And so having to compromise or give up certain aspects of life that you're seeing your friends are doing can be a frustration in grad school that I experienced for sure. And then maybe there's a pandemic as well. And so there's just things you cannot predict outside of your academics. In addition to that, having a PhD can be very independent work. So here you have a professor, you have a core syllabus outlined of everything that you're going to do and your PhD kind of on your own, and it's up to you to manage your time and manage your research and making sure that you're able to do that while also, I don't know, getting engaged or building a relationship with somebody and wanting to travel is complicated and you have to learn to deal with.

Cassie Petoskey:
Dr. Wilson, thank you so much. Everyone, join me in thanking Dr. Wilson for being here. Thank you for the candid conversation and really important conversation.